KARL JASPERS FORUM
TA 1 (Muller)

Response 14 (to Holmgren's C 19)

PLATONIC METAPHYSICS AS
A SPECIAL CASE OF WORKING METAPHYSICS
by Herbert FJ Muller
4 December 1999, posted 21 December 1999


[1]
I am much indebted to Jan Holmgren for his thorough commentary on my TA1, in which he proposes an alternate approach ('detectism') to the question of subjectivity. He maintains that 'there is a mind-independent external world'. Thus he presents a variety of the majority realism (MIR) opinion, which implies a Plato-type metaphysical reality. My response is essentially that: if, as he states, he proposes that reality is mind-independent, and secondly also that the mind is real, he would have to demonstrate that the mind (specifically, subjective experience) is or can be mind- (specifically: experience-) independent, and I don't think he has done that. In the following I will discuss some of his chief arguments.

[2]
He quotes <3> a recent statement by Stapp who wants to 'incorporate human beings, including both their body/brains and their conscious experience into the quantum mechanical description of nature'. This strikes me as impossible because QM is a mental product rather than vice versa: the experiencer is the describer of QM in nature - just as he is the describer of objective events in general. (Whether or not this role of the experiencer is acknowledged as such is a separate question.) One can show how QM - or objective science in general - originate in subjective experience, but not how subjective experience originates objectively in QM, for instance <9> in terms of a hidden variable.

[3]
Further<4>, JH agrees (i) that we have access only to our experiences, but writes (ii) that 'they (our experiences) are just small parts of a much more extensive external world which is no less real, even though it is absolutely beyond reach ... ' and: (iii) 'each conscious experience is the 'exposure to immediacy of a fragment of the world' ...' The first part is a re-statement of Plato's cave parable, which has been a headache for a long time, but the second and third parts are problematic for a different reason : they are not compatible with the first. If the external (MIR) world is beyond reach, fragments of it are beyond reach too.

[4]
What we can know is not nature but our constructions : 'scire est facere, verum est factum' (Vico). And one of the built-in aspects of our constructions (numbers, triangles, word-meanings, concepts, truths, goals, etc.) is that they transcend experience. The structures last longer and as tools they are designed to cover a greater territory than any momentary experience, or also than the combined experiences of one's life time, or of all collective life times put together, can ever cover. In this respect the meanings per se of words and concepts are similar to gestalt formations, and at a more elementary (and objective) level even to receptor configurations, which outlast and outreach momentary events and 'meanings', even for single cells or bacteria. That many such configurations are inherited, or else socially transmitted to a large extent, does not change the fact that they influence one's reality-building. And the reality building includes 'objects' (as Piaget showed for children).

[5]
If one watches birds <5>, or also cars, or politicians, one does not have to go into such considerations, it is in fact more helpful to take the experiences as real with no immediate need for doubt (at the basic conceptual level, I mean). That is, here the MIR works well enough, and systematic skepticism would be impractical. (It is different for QM or the mind-brain relation where MIR does not work satisfactorily for some questions, and it has to be analyzed and modified, and perhaps dis-assembled.) All these entities (gestalten including people and their spontaneity), words, concepts, are built within our experience which would otherwise not be structured. This consideration does not contradict the immediacy of the resulting everyday reality-feeling, but the latter cannot serve as a guarantee of truth because it may at times mislead, such as when we mistake one person for another.

[6]
The structure-building does not imply that the experience is invented: experience is 'given', but the experiential structures are not (this difference between structuring and inventing is sometimes not made clear in constructivist proposals). Similarly <6>, 'it is absurd to deny that there was a world before the human mind appeared on earth' : this is the question of the tree in northern Siberia which falls with no one hearing or seeing it, or Einstein's question whether the moon disappears when no one looks at it. It is absurd once one has accepted an objective (MIR) picture of the world as valid-in-itself, and within this world-view, but it might not have been absurd for cave-men. And it is not absurd now, I suggest, to consider that this world-picture is our creation. This creation originated in ongoing experience, extrapolating from there with the help of structures which we have built, earlier or simultaneously (ad hoc, and including for instance the big bang), within experience, to deal with and expand on experience as needed.

[7]
And further, other world-views are possible, and not entirely useless, though they may be less convincing or helpful tools for some purposes. In pursuit of certain goals, such as technical or analytical ones, people converge on MIR (or as-if MIR) views of the world, because they are helpful; in pursuit of common action, or individual and communal inner peace, on other views, such as religious, political, or scientistic doctrines and cults. The various views may or may not be (entirely or partly) compatible with each other. (Except in the case of systematic skepticism, all tend to promote certain or 'true' structures of some type, on which they suggest to rely.) To see these different views as tool sets, built for differing purposes but originating from a common source (from structure-building in experience) may be helpful for understanding what happens.

[8]
Concerning 'the enormously richly structured organism-environment system' <6>: do you suggest that the system creates all the structures itself, and that when we notice it, it is already pre-self-assembled ? In that case, how can we know about it, since we have no access to it ? (see [3] above). I guess you do assume something like this <11>, else you would not call your theory 'detectism': one can only detect something already there. - 'The evolutionary origin explains the permanence of qualia' : it does, on an objective level. But it remains that we can only start from experience, there is no choice, and explanations are secondary. That is, qualia (and structure-building) are first, objective (evolutionary or other) explanations come later, based on and extrapolating from the accepted (standard) structure-entities.

[9]
'Human conscious experiences can change the external world' <7> : that we can create automata is only one part of the picture. Earlier on, we already build mental tools, such as both internal and external world (ie, mind-nature) structures, and the border between the two is itself one of these structures, it is a secondary product. Otherwise, we would have no access to the outer aspects (see [3]). 'We make use of regularities'<8>, sometimes in a non-reflective fashion, which is often reasonable to do. As JH writes, even space and time are formed within experience. - The absolute speed limit <9> by the way is an interesting example of structure positing, because for his theory Einstein presented it not as an experimental result, but posited it (as a pre-supposition, Voraussetzung), and to my knowledge this is still so. At least in principle this could act as a self-fulfilling prophecy, because if you accept a postulate as fundamental truth, your experimental results may tend to confirm it.

[10]
<10> 'Psychology has a key role for the integration of all knowledge': one can put it that way, but it is important to realize that some of the greatest present difficulties concern conceptual rather than experimental aspects. This is often referred to as epistemology, but as JH notes it may be best handled in an inter-disciplinary exchange, because it concerns many people in many fields.


[11]
CONCLUSION

JH writes <12> that he sees no need for an as-if. He wants to stay with a variety of Platonic metaphysical outside reality. ('Realism' always implies this, although in contrast to him, other authors commonly neglect to mention the metaphysical aspect.) I suggest that such MIR-belief is a special case of (or a shortcut for) 'as-if-MIR' (or 0-D) use. Or if you prefer, that traditional static metaphysics can be seen as a special case of and shortcut for 'working metaphysics', in extension from the notion of working hypothesis. The shortcut is viable (in von Glasersfeld's terms) for those uses where it is possible to keep things at a distance from the subject.

[12]
This proposition is a consequence of the notions (a) that all mental-mind-and-world structures are developed within a not originally divided, nor otherwise structured, but not-invented, ongoing subjective experience, and (b) that concepts have experience-transcending aspects built into them from the start, as do also gestalten and (objective physiological) receptor configurations. For this reason, transcendence (metaphysics) is unavoidable, and the question is not whether but how to use it. My present opinion is then that MIR has a more limited range of usefulness for analytic purposes than as-if-MIR, while in contrast traditional MIR - to the extent that it takes things for granted - may offer greater stability (certainty) for individual and group action than as-if-MIR. This certaintymay of course turn out to be illusory.

I thank Jan Holmgren for his stimulating comment, and would be much interested in further discussion of this topic.

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REFERENCES

Einstein Albert, Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Koerper, Annalen der Physik, 17, 1905, 891-921.

Vico Giambattista, De Antiquissima Italorum Sapientia (1710). Translated into English, with an introduction and notes by LM Palmer. Ithaka : Cornell University Press, 1988.

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Herbert FJ Muller
e-mail <mdmu@musica.mcgill.ca>