KARL JASPERS FORUM
TA111 (Beamish)

Response 1 (to C1, Müller)

 

Re :  GROUND RULES FOR ACCESS TO CONSCIOUSNESS
by Peter Beamish
6 November 2008, posted 15 November 2008


[1]
[from C1:]
“How do you see the following rules related to your TA111 ?”

(For TA111 as 2 pages see: <http://www.egroups.com/message/time/14607>.)  [REPLIES AND REFERENCES (also [<www.kjf.ca>]) are in [square brackets].]

"The approach to the mind-brain question is conditional to some interrelated rules which are very simple, in fact so simple that it may seem absurd to state them explicitly, except for the reason that they are universally neglected."

[ONE'S MIND IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM ONE'S BRAIN!]
[A New Definition of Mind = <http://www.egroups.com/message/time/13743>]
[2 pg glossary is <http://www.animalcontact.com/research/glossary.html>]


[2]
1. THE MIND CANNOT BE MIND-INDEPENDENT - - -

["RBC Theory" agrees 100%.]

"This is obvious; but occidental thinking, including epistemology, has since the time of Parmenides been based on the assumption that reality is mind-independently pre-structured (MIR-belief). That is the essence of metaphysics-ontology (and its derivatives, such as realism, positivism, materialism, exclusive objectivity, etc). Metaphysics assumptions govern thinking even when metaphysics is said to be rejected."

[By "RBC" models, both "objective reality" and "subjective reality" can co-exist.]


[3]
"No part of reality is mind-independent”

[Au contraire as scientific reality exists when facts can be reproduced, by some other mind, at some other location, and at some other "temporal scalar label" or "timetag."]


[4]
“but much of it can be treated as if were mind-independent."

[Such is mind-independent if it is the above scientific reality, and lies outside the volume (VERY dynamic as per above definition) of an operating mind.]


[5]
"However, even this as-if-MIR view is not possible for the mind.”

[Au contraire, as one's "Mental Thought Process, MTP" can "as-if" anything.]

[6]
“The result is that the mind cannot be real in the metaphysical sense,”

[Metaphysics is "beyond physics, beyond science," and, MAY not be real.]

[7]
“and in practice it disappears from discussion; its existence may even be explicitly denied.”
 
["Mental Vector Processes, MVPs" AND minds exist!]

[8]
That prevents access to the question of 'consciousness' and the mind-brain relation problem."

[Au contraire! "MTPs" AND consciousness exist!]


[9]
“2. THINKING CAN ONLY START FROM ONGOING EXPERIENCE” - -

[No, via "MTPs!"]

[10]
"This is also obvious,

[Au contraire, as one's "Mental Thought Process, MTP" can "think" about productions, plans, imaginary concepts & dreams.]

[11]
“but when reality is seen as mind-independent, one tends to want (after an ontological leap of faith) to start from a fictitious primary external, mind-independent reality. That leads to a neglect or denial of subjective experience in theory-building." –

[Subjective experience & "true subjective reality," can "show the way" to a "true scientific reality."]


[12]
“3.MENTAL STRUCTURES ARE IN THE MIND, NOT VICE VERSA”

[Agree 100%.]

[13]
"Mental structures (concerning everything, including self and world) occur upon the background of encompassing experience, which encompasses them, and not vice versa. For instance the mind cannot be found in nature, because nature is a mental structure."

[But, "mind" is in life!]

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Peter Beamish
     e-mail <
beamish (at) oceancontact.com >