KARL JASPERS FORUM
TA 106 (Müller)
Commentary 10 (to L Sundararajan)
ON GOD
by Koss-Chioino,
Lothane, Mikes, Schuster
25 March 2008, posted 29 March
2008
I find that I must agree with
Pete's honest and direct experiential proof ! The Spiritists, who
subscribe to a parallel spirit world and whom I have studied and come to know
very well, sometimes say: " I don't believe but
what exists exists!" I will elaborate further at
a later date.
Joan Koss-Chioino,
Ph.D. (Anthropology)
--------------------------------------------
From Zvi
Lothane, MD (Psychiatry)
Dear Pete,
you may be humble about your
erudition, but your heart and mind are in the right place. God needs no attacks and no apologetics. It is an idea, not a thing. There is also the concept of Godhead, the
English translation of the German Gottheit, or the
idea of the divine. All
the above amounts to SPIRITUALITY, a soul idea.
Now the established RELIGIONS,
i.e., institutions that sell God, who claim a copyright on God (others who would
like to imitate them should bottle air and sell it, too), package Christ (one
of the gods) together with commerce, conflict, conscription of armies, combat,
Congress, etc., e.g., our Prez. Religions may contain an element of
spirituality, but it is usually a trace of it. It is mostly convincing people
to do awful things to each other in the name of God. And yes, the God of monotheism is not a
white-bearded gentleman living in a palcace in the
sky, ridiculed by Voltaire and by the Victorians as the 'gaseous vertebrate.'
In
previous centuries people like Aquinas and Descartes philsophized
with God. Then came Nietzsche
who philosophized with the hammer. Now we philosphize with the brain. Remember: no brain, never mind
!
Zvi Lothane
------------------------------------
>From Peter Schuster
Many thanks for those kind
words. If only people would be so kind
to others; what a wonderful world we would live in.
It has become a spiritual tragedy
what man has made out of GOD ! Be well, enjoy life and do no harm.
Pete
-----------------------------------
From John
Mikes, SC.D.
(Chemistry)
Dear Mr. Schuster (Pete),
you are quite eloquent. And your question represents an overwhelming
majority of the 6 billion human population.
I have no business to respond,
but I feel as having something to say after many many
discussions in this topic with starting on the believeing
side and ending up at the not believing ? - how can one NOT "believe in" what one does not
believe ? I have today no notion what a 'god' represents, so I cannot be a
denier. An 'agnostic' requires a god to
deny.
I consider the assumption that
'there MUST be' is hollow and unsubstantiated, including your assumptions to
"see the results from Him" - as you believe. Imaginary supernatural authorities are and
have ever been excuses for doing harm.
Christians invented the devil to escape the question: are all evil
things also the doings of your god ?
I don't want to persuade you or
any one of the 5+ billion to give up your faith, if it keeps you happy. I am simply afraid of the 'fallout' of powermongers, using the gullibility of believers to do harm
(think of the crusades, the inquisition, the Muslim fundamentalist cruelties,
the religious wars, the miseries of burning people etc. (the list is endless it
goes on and on).
Political power can and does use
religions to control people.
The assumptions are strong -
belief system is unshakable.
Nobody so far showed that a good
or bad deed was indeed done by a supernatural intelligence. People do them.
(What gives you the idea that
world-'existence' had to start somehow, or more: that we are capable of
understanding it?)
No argumentation works, the
meaning of terms is different for people with different belief systems. What
works is only the beheading, or stoning of the infidel as is still practiced.
To believe in going to heaven or
the fear of going to hell is millennially ingrained and not subject to logical
changing. In my opinion the reins (fear
of eternal punishment) ARE still necessary for most people to keep them from
doing really terrible things. On the
other hand, however, it may lead by a religious fervour to killing the MD who
performed abortions.
Be happy in your faith and allow
others to miss such happiness. Nobody
walks in the shoes of the other one.
Best regards
John Mikes
------------------------------------------
From Peter Schuster
Hi John,
I agree in all you said. Being a Jew the invention of Hell is a great
fear idea. Naturally we don't believe
that story and many other new ones that came off our faith. Generally what ever
exists man can change to fit his wants and needs.
Enjoy life and do no harm.
Be well...
Pete